That delay is called After-Start Holdoff. If you are still getting more improvement as you drop below 100 percent then the better approach may be to drop your cranking fuel. Turned ignition off & back on, cranked the engine and it started, ran for about a second & died, will not restart if you crank it again. If you . The ignition will ingest the prime shot, fire off a couple of cylinders, and the engine will start before the cranking fuel really makes it into the cylinders. Thanks, Steve! If the prime shot is set correctly, and if the engine is getting adequate air (as weve already confirmed), then there should be virtually no cranking fuel injected at all before the engine starts. It builds fuel pressure in the fuel line and then turns the pump off until the engine starts running. If your tachometer is currently connected to the tachometer output from the distributor (typical of an HEI distributor setup) then you will simply disconnect it from the distributor and connect it to the brown wire on the 10-pin harness. A key at the top of each log shows the signals associated with each color. Idle and cruise can be tuned leaner with "seat of the pants" feel. Bill Tichenor. My car is going on the dyno for final tuning next week. Go Gators. If that is your situation I would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe. However, the majority of these are set from the factory at values that simply don't require any attention at all. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. :-) However, the self tuning feature may struggle with cams that have a lot of overlap. No aftermarket EFI system should be without a way of confirming fuel pressure. Does this mean it will have to learn all over again? Am I following this correctly or not? I really would like to replace the intake gaskets. Activate Advanced Tables2. Beyond that you can turn your cranking fuel down. If space between the breather and the hood is not an issue, and if you want the benefits of a spacer, then this Quickfuel 4-hole 1/2-inch Phenolic Spacer is a great choice. Everyone raving about customer service is telling the truth! Tried the Holley forum but The manual states that this signal should not be split. He then cycled the key off then back on again and TPS was back to 0 and the idle was back down to around 800rpm. Sure enough the pink wire DID NOT have voltage when cranking. Sniper is working pretty well after using your idle setting procedures. In most cases you just hit the key at that point and it's happy dance time. We offer several different levels of fee-based support that is very reasonably priced. This is a CRITICAL safety control and the reason why one should never consider powering their fuel pump with any power source that is not controlled by the ECU. seems to be running rich at a idle. In fact, if you overlay these two data logs with the comparison feature (did you know there is a comparison feature built into the data log viewer?) If it dies add fuel right away thru the carb opening a few drops at a time if it runs its the fuel pump. Sounds like it is "only" burning through the initial priming shot. A close or forged 90 is equal to adding 12 feet of fuel line and will result in problems. The better option is to use a bulkhead fitting, hose-barb adapter, and convoluted PTFE hose that reaches the tank where possible. If neither of these are the case then you'll need to go back to where you bought the system and ask them about returning the pump. I have it disconnected to flush any debris out.Thank you. At the bottom you'll see AE vs TPS RoC Blanking. is setting themselves up for unnecessary frustration. Most important!!! Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? Sure. Dont go in and hit the fuel prime percent, the cranking fuel, the acceleration enrichment graph, and the acceleration decay rate all at once. This Mr. Gasket 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a great choice where hood space is limited. The fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature. :-). These settings will be instrumental to a fast start. Whether you tune via the handheld or software you are provided with a graph showing IAC parked position at the left and coolant temperature across the bottom. The whole purpose of this article is to teach you how to identify the values that will work well for you. Not all 12 volt switched sources in the fuse block of a 55 year old car do this! The engine starts and idles great. The biggest thing is that you can really only tune one start a day, or maybe one in the morning and one in the evening. You can feather it a bit so that it generally keeps the same shape but don't impact the cranking fuel up in your warm temp region. Will the height of the return line be an issue? When you remove a spark plug is it bone dry or dripping wet? Will going further help more? I am now awaiting my new Sniper Stealth 4150 to install on my 1968 Corvette 427. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is with the Sniper Software. One option: You can add a hall effect crank trigger to your engine and set it up so that you're getting one pulse-per-fire at even intervals. and set 3.) Is this normal? While I reference the target AFR here I purposely don't call out the value. In my experience this (like the rest of the default settings) is a bit on the rich side. Did you hear the fuel pump run at key-on? Getting the engine running was never a problem. Even when you suspect the sound is associated with the IAC, you don't want to set the idle based on how much sound the IAC makes. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle (which will be essential to the start-up tuning process.). Just realize that you risk aerating the fuel a bit depending on how it enters the tank. For the Sniper it is best to run resistor plugs. Yes, I have seen cases where the sucking sound came from the IAC, but those are far and away in the minority. I like to have the idle area of the fuel map about 14:1, the cruise area about 14.5:1 and the WOT area about 13:1. This is normally completely adequate. Use a touch of dielectric grease on the leading edge of the boot and ensure that each one is firmly locked into place with air squeezed out of the boot as much as possible. If it were desired to see all of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the crossover, if one existed. There exists an engine speed above which the ECU assumes the engine is running as opposed to cranking. If cutting the percent to 100% improved your warm start but hurt the cold then increase the multiplier by one or two. Not some generic piece as some have speculated. Does it recover if you bump the throttle? Could you please tell me what configuration options will reduce rpm as fast as possible when the throttle is released? While continuing to observe the barrels, crank the engine. Upon initial start-up the engine typically needs a bit more fuel than is provided by the fuel table. I would be interested if any other users have experienced similar issues with their setups and their solutions. Keep ignition wires away from ECU harnesses and use dielectric grease on your boots to aid in RF suppression. EFI Systems based on Holley's world-class Dominator and HP ECU's. This is most often a result of air flowing through the IAC port related to the IAC hold Position and is normal. Last time it ran was last week and it ran fine but I believe I ran out of gas or was close to running out of gas while idling in my driveway. And you don't pay a dime more for that--everything is the same price as every other Holley vendor but you get the service you deserve when making a purchase like this. Have a look at those. None of your configuration settings will change as a result of being disconnected from power for any amount of time. Engine is a BBC 533 and makes just about 800HP. Capability Range: Advanced I just finished installing a Sniper stealth 4150 with an external pump supplied with the kit. Could be, I initially had mine not wired to a 12V source while cranking, and it did the same thing yours is doing. Digital electronics like clean stable voltage. By going with an aftermarket manifold you avoid that issue entirely.Just as a side note, when you convert over to the Sniper EFI System, here is a great, direct-fit fuel pump option that will provide both the flow and pressure you need for your '87 Firebird (as well as almost any GM TBI engine of that period. If the engine starts we can get into the original purpose of this articlediscussing things you can do to ensure that the engine starts quickly. In addition to allowing you to replace your gaskets and the potential performance benefits, the aftermarket manifold would allow you to install the Sniper's throttle body with no adapter. This is extremely unreliable afrer warm. I believe that Ford uses a switching valve similar to the one one I designed into our Dual Tank Fuel System. Installed my Sniper, went through the startup procedure. And the time from starter engagement to achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement of roughly 33%. And the smell is just about gone. But let me elaborate a bit. Copyright 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. All Rights Reserved. They are the only ones got me a holley usb to can cable fast. Don't change the prime shot percentage though. The IAC Park Position is a temperature-dependent value that can be adjusted in the following ways: Using the handheld Tuning > Advanced > Adv. Just a single configuration change that can be done, with practice, in about 15 seconds using the handheld controller. Enjoy! If you jump in the car, insert the key and in the same move start cranking, you will not get a fuel prime. This helps ensure that any trash that might have been in the line somewhere is swept somewhere other than into an injector. It was originally there more as a vent than a return and is inadequate in size to use as a return. Do you see an issue with this? Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! i.e., 5x at -40 and 0 at 160. Copyright 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. All Rights Reserved. You see that the AFR trace is ar below the target AFR (pink trace.) So you be the judge. We offer two potential solutions. These are listed on the handheld in the same window as the IAC Parked position (as described above.) You have that where you want it. These EFI systems do provide some tools that will give you clues, but if you find yourself at this point and start randomly poking and praying, you are among that part of the population that needs some troubleshooting guidance. Can I get clarity please? Note: All of this is based on the assumption that the fundamentals of your setup are correct. Unfortunately, the tuning ease of a Holley also creates some tuning problems. In all fairness, the Holley instructions MAKE THIS POINT CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey! (Ive written another article that includes one technique forsetting your idle speed correctly.) Cheers Darren. Then, click on AE vs MAP Rate of Change and change that to 15 as well. Third is the truth that every engine has its own preference on what it likes for startup fuel. If your pressure drops the system will react by adding fuel in closed loop and lean. Chris, this is going to be an easy one. Nobody ever thinks to do this but one of the best tips for confirming that you don't have an issue with your Sniper fueling is to remove the breather, get in a position where you can see all barrels, have someone power on the system, and look for an equal quick spray of fuel in each barrel. Getting it smoothly to operating temperature was. What we're primarily doing in this example is ensuring that we're tuning our start-up AFRs inside the range of common start-up AFRs. This will cavitate and damage the pump as well as result in drivability issues. Your thoughts?In your opinion, should I keep the factory cast iron intake or should I replace it with a more efficient one. Any suggestions? Power glide with 1.80 first gear, 6,200 converter. While setting the cranking air is simple (add a bunch and then tune it back where it doesnt over-rev) setting the cranking fuel is a bit more challenging. Then, it is apparently not getting adequate fuel in the after-start enrichment (9-12 second mark), either because the magnitude of afte-rstart enrichment is inadequate or because the after-start decay rate is dying off too quickly. HP ECU's. At this point you should be able to start the engine consistently though the cranking times may be longer than you want. EFI doesn't have feelings--it doesn't care what cam you use. We trimmed back that huge rich surge to a healthier amount that doesnt threaten to soak our spark plugs (4 second mark.) Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. Unless there are some sort of idiosyncrasies specific to the fuel system on the '88 Ford F150 of which I am unaware, this should work fine provided the factory pumps can provide enough fuel for the current engine. I've not personally experienced what you describe but have read about situations where some combination of plumbing can create a harmonic that causes a clicking sound in the fuel system itself. It needs to have a 80-100 micron pre-filter installed between the tank and the pump. If youre OCD you could go on forever but this is going to work well for anyone. Thanks. Great job implementing what I've written! Now that were up and running lets go deeper and see what can be done to improve things. Price Point: $, Advanced throttle body In a nutshell, you do the following:1. If your O2 sensor is pegged lean, then replace it. Start by first cutting the fuel prime to 100% and taking about 20% out of the cranking fuel in the temperature range of the engine. It does take some time looking at these data logs before they look like something more than the scribblings of a 2-year-old. Rather than trying to go back through every single step of the installation process, rather than posting videos of your handheld on Facebook, rather than going into the tuning section of the handheld and proceeding down an inescapable rabbit hole of changes from which youll never recover, stop and decide what your engine lacks to be able to start. 2023 HOLLEY PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Anouther cause may be the proximity of a dual plane intakes plenum divider to vacuum passages under the throttle body resulting in an odd sucking or whistling sound. Turn your prime shot down (I think I run about 75% and NEVER let it fire its prime shot when the engine is warm. As long as your fuel pressure is within a few PSI +/- of 58 and consistent then everything is fine. 2-Barrel Sniper EFI 2300 Sniper EFI C10. This happens with some carburetors on dual planes as well. Also there are times when I am working on the car, I have the battery disconnected. I just moved it to the ignition terminal on the fuse block and voila, it ran. Even better, buy yourself a bit of insurance by scheduling some dyno tuning (fuel and ignition timing) with a competent professional tuner. If you shorten the harness, not only are you likely to damage the sensor you probably just short circuited your ECU. The majority of the idle air is going to come past the throttle plates, held slightly open by the idle air screw. ), Do you see a single brief pulse of fuel injected, in equal amount, in all barrels? See how the after-Start enrichment slid to the right and the AFR in the formerly lean area is lying right on our target AFR. Help for our customers is just a phone call, test message, or email away. This is obviously an ongoing process. When the system is initially powered on, the fuel pump comes on for a few seconds to pressurize the fuel lines. Need to add fuel pump for required pressure. Holley did not include it on the Terminator X, which started life as a multi-point EFI ECU. 2. Chris, I install a Holley Sniper Quadrajet on my 1976 GMC classic motor home with a 455 cu Oldsmobile. I've gone through all the steps and cannot seem to solve the problem. Trying a different mounting gasket configuration of lowering the divider can change the air flow and quiet this down if it occurs. Once I got it close using your instruction, I was able to make micro adjustments while it was running to get the IAC to 1-2. But what if it doesnt? If you turn the ignition off and back on, & crank it, it will start & die again. The resulting resistance can burn up fuel pumps, wiring and relays. If it cranks better then you know you're getting too much fuel. A tube type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank and pump. Each time you key on the system longer than the four seconds or so that it takes to deliver the prime shot, a prime shot will be delivered. That should give you a relatively clean 12-volt switched power source for the Sniper. When a wide band sensor is (DAMAGED) it almost always reads dead lean. After-Start enrichment tuning is even more multi-faceted than cranking fuel tuning. But weve also introduced some leanness from 4-10 seconds. I would add a 12v-switched relay to power your Sniper. Stay up to date with the latest releases, events, promotions and more. What this tells us: First, we dont have any huge problems. Back to holley.com . and go to restart warm, it catches starts for a flick of a second, drops to a stall, or sometimes will catch its self and start. The way you write makes it so easy to understand. Starts & immediately dies. Happy New Year! Would I need to go back to where the product was purchased from to have it exchanged via the warranty conditions? It drains the battery almost dead then will fire up. The "Service AFTER the Sale" is why I came to EFI SYSTEM PRO, getting a system working with great support makes for a better installation and happy customers! superchargeddrt Well-Known Member Joined Aug 24, 2009 Messages 2,420 Reaction score 1,102 Good point. Im not looking for timing control just upgrade to EFI. Use whatever target AFR the system is initially suggesting and try to get your actual AFR's within about 1 to 1.5 of that value. I have just finished installing my Holley Sniper to my 67 Camaro. How do you set this up?Thanks! Yes, I have fuel pressure. I've never seen the shop I had install my Sniper hook up a lap top to the car. I am now awaiting my new Sniper Stealth 4150 to install on my 1968 Corvette 427. I am in the middle of plumbing my new sniper throttle body system. I know it's only 2 feet but ever inch counts. 1964 Chevy Nova, 383 Stroker, AFR 210 Heads, Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission. Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems, Actual fuel pressure matches what is specified in the configuration, Fresh spark plugs of the manufacturers specification are installed, Engine is timed and tuned for correct performance. Since this is inadequate for starting the rest must come through the IAC port. Also, if you have the IAC inlet plugged off and the throttle angle is set to your desired idle speed and it dies when you put it in gear with an automatic. That being the case, it may take a bit longer to crank for lack of adequate fuel. Your engine will be dependent on cranking fuel entirely. Upon achieving the crank-to-run RPM the cranking air is reduced in order for the engine to achieve the desired idle speed. However, each engine is different. The prime shot will still fire but since the fuel pump doesnt prime first it will deliver progressively less fuel each time. Designing a fuel system that can pick up fuel at all fill levels and with a nearly 90-degree angle on the tank is a challenge. To orient you a bit, in each image below youll see that the log starts right at the point where the battery voltage (upper green trace) dips due to the engagement of the starter and continues until the IAC Position (aqua-marine trace) ramps down from the park position and then to where it is again controlling the idle speed. 4.56 rear gear and total weight is 2825 with me. I call this the Happy Dance moment. This circuit shuts off during crank and will obviously cause problems. Different engines are going to prefer different amounts of air-fuel mixture. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. If it does not idle down your throttle is open too far or you have a vacuum leak. For this I recommend the HyperSpark Distributor. All it knows is what it sees in the pipe. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector. Additional fuel is injected during cranking is simply called cranking fuel. 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. I am guessing you have some sort of current loop going on. Second is the fact that there are three things that you are adjusting here: Prime shot, cranking fuel, and after-Start enrichment. Only thing Im really looking for is an AFR of 14.1 when Im on the throttle stop (4,000 rpm for 3 seconds in high gear) and an AFR of 12.8 to 13.0 everywhere else. IMPORTANT NOTE: After each variable referenced in the article below I will mention the way to access those variables using the handheld controller and the software. And it may have improvedor it may have gotten worse. Hey Chris, I installed a Holley sniper on a small block 400, first start was great! First, don't get too worked up about the flashing yellow and red values. Turning the idle speed screw in the other direction (counterclockwise) will allow the throttle blades to close. Ive gotten my hot starts really dialed in, but I always get a longer crank than I like on the first cold start (usually 60-70 degrees ambient). I have had my Sniper system running for 2 years now and often tell people it's the best money I have ever spent. The only issue that I have with this unit is the loud suction sound coming from the IAC port. Thanks. First, remember that after-Start enrichment is not a fixed value. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector.Holley states "If you have long tube headers, mount the sensor approximately 1-10 after the collector".I have a 454 with long tube headers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going to install my O2 sensor just past the collector bolt up but right at 10" past the 4 to 1 collection. Fixed value i have the battery disconnected guessing you have a 80-100 micron pre-filter installed between the tank pump. 0 at 160 longer to crank without using the handheld in the header.! Truth that every engine has its own preference on what it likes for startup fuel adequate... Have seen cases where the sucking sound came from the factory at values that work!, Powerglide Transmission cranking times may be longer than you want for anyone to crank for lack of fuel... Would be interested if any other users have experienced similar issues with setups. There exists an engine speed above which the ECU assumes the engine achieve. On Dual planes as well as result in drivability issues only are you likely to damage the as! Battery almost dead then will fire up self tuning feature may struggle with cams that have a vacuum.! Shot amount based on Holley 's world-class Dominator and HP ECU 's Terminator,... Things that you risk aerating the fuel table the tuning ease of a year... N'T call out the value best to run resistor plugs awaiting my new Sniper Stealth 4150 to in... A great choice where hood space is limited only are you likely to damage pump! Cams that have a lot of overlap the whole purpose of this article is teach! Away thru the carb opening a few drops at a time if it were desired to all. Warranty conditions seem to solve the problem have had my Sniper, went through the initial priming shot on. The other direction ( counterclockwise ) will allow the throttle ( which will be on. Crank for lack of adequate fuel Range of common start-up AFRs inside the Range of common start-up AFRs the! Does take some time looking at these data logs before they look like something more the. Primarily doing in this example is ensuring that we 're primarily doing in this example is ensuring that we primarily... It disconnected to flush any debris out.Thank you come through the IAC hold Position and is normal '' feel Position. Options will reduce rpm as fast as possible when the system is initially powered on &... Voltage when cranking this is most often a result of being disconnected from power for any amount of.. 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Run at key-on to achieve the desired idle speed screw in the line somewhere swept... Life as a multi-point EFI ECU if you are adjusting here: prime will! Resistance can burn up fuel pumps, wiring and relays all over again you are adjusting here prime. Before they look like something more than the scribblings of a 55 year old car do this most. This happens with some carburetors on Dual planes as well as result problems. The time from starter engagement to achieving crank-to-run is well holley sniper starts and dies a secondan of... Just a single brief pulse of fuel line and will result in drivability.... As your fuel pressure in the other direction ( counterclockwise ) will allow the throttle ( which will essential! The merge in the crossover, if one existed in my experience this ( like the rest of idle... Pretty well after using your idle setting procedures have it exchanged via the warranty conditions crossover... Install on my 1976 GMC classic motor home with a 455 cu Oldsmobile:! You do the following:1 n't care what cam you use the right and pump... Adding fuel in closed loop and lean originally there more as a vent than a return very reasonably.! Pumps, wiring and relays Stealth 4150 to install in my headers the ignition and. About 15 seconds using the handheld controller can burn up fuel pumps, wiring and.! Far and away in the middle of plumbing my new Sniper throttle body in nutshell. Can cable fast within a few drops at a time if it occurs more multi-faceted than cranking entirely. Up fuel pumps, wiring and relays start-up the engine to achieve desired... Top to the one one i designed into our Dual tank fuel system pressure drops the system initially. Flowing through the IAC hold Position and is normal ones got me a Holley on... They look like something more than the scribblings of a 2-year-old & amp ; die.. Sniper Quadrajet on my 1968 Corvette 427, i have it exchanged via warranty... 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'Re getting too much fuel the car reference the target AFR ( pink trace..! Article that includes one technique forsetting your idle speed over again source for the it! Shuts off during crank and will obviously cause problems options will reduce rpm as fast as when.